MARTIN: Hey, this is Martin Pytela, health coach at Life Enthusiast. And today I have the honor and a pleasure to introduce to you, Eric Cogorno. Eric is an accomplished trainer and a master of his game. And his game is golf. But golf truly, to me, is a metaphor. You can pick anything in life and use that as a vehicle to get yourself from starter, to mediocre, to better, to excellence. And I would like to use Eric's wisdom and learn skills to, how to introduce that. Welcome, Eric!

ERIC: Yeah, Mr. Martin, I appreciate you having me on here. I look forward to our chat today.

MARTIN: Yeah, definitely. Eric, as I was going through your bio, it's an interesting story, right? You have had this thought pretty much since your childhood, right?

ERIC: Yeah, so I got into golf, obviously now, I'm 36 now. I've been coaching golf for 16 years, which is crazy to even think about. It's been that long. And so I grew up, a small kid in Pennsylvania playing sports. And I really got into golf, Martin, because my dad played. And so he played on the weekends. I wanted to go, basically just hang out with him. My dad was like Superman to me when I was younger. Yeah, so I thought, I wanted to go hang out my dad. And I wasn't any good at golf in the beginning. You know, as you aren't when you start anything new, I was pretty young.

MARTIN: Yeah, nobody is good at anything when they first start. When you start walking, you fall a lot, right?

ERIC: Yeah, it's hard to tell that to a 10-year-old me who expects perfection on swing one. But nonetheless, I wasn't any good. And for me, when I've run into things, Martin, in my life that I'm not good at, there's usually a fork in the road where I'm either like, hey, I don't like this. I'm probably not going to do this anymore. Or I'm like, hey, I'm kind of, I get obsessed with it and I'm all in on it. And so with golf, for me, I went the obsessed route, and probably from age 10 to 18, it was just for me like school, golf, school, golf, school golf, I quit playing all the other sports.

MARTIN: That's amazing. So you were not into girls and stuff, just golf?

ERIC: Yeah. At that age man, I was just focused. I want to go play golf on TV.

MARTIN: Well, that's how mastery is made. That's how a Master is developed, by insane focus. Right?

ERIC: Exactly, exactly. And I was focused, man, I was obsessed with it. And wanted to go play golf on TV. Be a professional golfer.

MARTIN: Okay.

ERIC: And it took me all of about my first tournament in college. So I went to a small school up here in Pennsylvania called Lehigh University.

MARTIN: Yeah.

ERIC: We played at our first tournament, Martin. It was, the players we played against were at this mid, they were okay, not world class players. They were decent.

MARTIN: They would, what, be 200 to 500 on the scale somewhere?

ERIC: Yeah, they were not world class elite elite, but good enough to go play in college type guys.

MARTIN: All right, okay.

ERIC: But they were so clearly better than me.

MARTIN: Uh-huh, okay.

ERIC: The gap between them and me was so high to the point  where I was realistic about where I was at I was like, hey, I'm never gonna even be as good as these guys. And they're not even the best of the best of the best.

MARTIN: Is it because of some talents that a person has to be born with to get that extra edge?

ERIC: I think it's a combo. I think there's certainly things that, I spent so much time in my childhood playing sports and developing eye-hand coordination. And certainly I think that's a chunk of it. But I've also been around people who spend a lot of time doing the same sort of skill work and didn't acquire the same sort of skills, which I think leaves the gap of  percentage points that were born with it. I think sometimes you see things or someone for example, Elon Musk, I'll use. You know, we have a nice little business we run. I look at Elon Musk and I'm like, no matter what I do, I'm never gonna be worth the one or two more.

MARTIN: Right, of course, but just listen to him for one moment, one interview and it's clear that this man is obsessed to the point of possessed. He is so laser-focused on whatever he does. That's only available to people on the autistic spectrum. You have to have your brains so misconfigured that you have to be terrible at a whole bunch of things to be really good at something.

ERIC: That's true, that's true. And so, I had that to a smaller degree with golf where I said, hey, I'm not going to go play on TV. And so I sort of fell into the coaching golf.

MARTIN: All right.

ERIC: And once I got into coaching golf, playing the game and coaching is a metaphor for life. There's certainly the things you learn with golf. You never quite got it, you're always in the pursuit of improvements.

MARTIN: Yes.

ERIC: There's natural ups and downs, swing to swing day to day, month to month.

MARTIN: All right.

ERIC: And so there are lots of similarities, with who,

MARTIN: I took a look at your YouTube channel. You give away awesome amount of stuff for free. It's just so impressively generous of you.

ERIC: Thank you.

MARTIN: Somebody would, well, let's just name it. It's a YouTube channel and Eric Cogorno Golf. We will put a link up there. But I just want to say, anybody who would like to just learn something, it's there. If golf is your passion, then absolutely. And I think coaching is an interesting place to be, right?? A good coach is worth its money in gold. And have you figured out the point that you can take a mediocre performer and teach them a whole bunch of things where they make significant progress that they cannot easily learn on their own?

ERIC: Oh, yeah, totally agreed, Martin. So, I hire coaches in my own personal life in every category. And see exponential results with that. I think for me, golf coaching would be similar to what I assume with health, where a person comes into me and they say, hey, I want to get better at whatever the category is. I'm struggling with X, Y and Z. And for me as a coach, the first thing after I ask them, hey, what they're struggling with and what they want to be able to obtain where they want to go with this, is a diagnosis process. Like, what's going on that's causing those issues. So we work through that. Okay, clearly these are the big things that are holding us back.

And then explain that, right? So they're clear on that. And then action plan. Hey, okay, this is the diagnosis. These are holding us back. This is what we need you to do to solve that. Yeah, this is what that process is going to look like. And so I think a coach, Martin, in any category would follow kind of a similar process, right? And the things I learned coaching golf, I take into different parts of my life. I've transitioned into the past seven or eight years being very, very into personal development and my own health and improving my life. And so, yeah, the same disciplines and things I learned with golf and coaching have certainly transitioned into my personal life as well.

MARTIN: Yeah, that's actually awesome. I have been trying to get through to healthy people. We in our business, we manufacture superfoods and they're awesomely good. They are way above average products. And what's interesting is that they help unwell people to get to wellness. But can you imagine what they can do to a well person? It's a vector. It gets them from mediocre to phenomenal and from phenomenal to, I can't believe it's possible, right? And yet, and yet there's so many people out there who don't realize that being not in pain is not good enough. You can actually go from being not in pain to being really strong and then to be really, really well. I think the same idea for you, for your coaching, right? You can go and take a person well beyond their expectation.

ERIC: Yeah, and I'm curious, Martin, when people will come to you, I get a mix of people where sometimes someone needs to really hit their pain threshold where they're like, hey, I'm in such a bad position. I feel like I need to do something.

MARTIN: Right.

ERIC: And so I certainly get some of those people.

MARTIN: Yeah, the psychology.

ERIC: Yeah, like the people that you work with, are there more like, hey, my back’s against the wall. I can't live this way anymore, sort of clients.

MARTIN: Yeah. Eric, the craziest thing is that I have a good number of contact files that I have labeled NEP, not enough pain. There is always the limit. I heard Oprah Winfrey explain it one day, really nicely. She says: “Life will always give you a hint. Sometimes it's just a nudge. Well, if you don't get the message then it will give you a hit. Then it will give you a kick and then it will give you a hard kick and then you will hit the wall. And then the wall will come down all over you. So when do you want to get the message?” And so it's what you're just describing is that most of us are doing what we've always done until we're no longer able. You're describing the golfer who comes to you with, I hurt playing. Right?

ERIC: Yeah, I get most people who tell me, like, I'll always get this, Martin. I'm sure you get this too. It's like, I've tried everything. Or I just can't figure it out.

MARTIN: You're my last resort.

ERIC: Yeah. And then when they say that, and I say well, you haven’t tried everything everything. So yeah, I see a lot of people that come in to see me for golf. And I think that goes for any category. It's like pain, golf.

MARTIN: Well, talk about the specifics of this. What do you do? How do you actually evaluate the person? I guess you have them show you, right?

ERIC: Yeah. So I think golf and a lot of things, most people who come into me, they want me to fix their golf swing. But inherently, there's root things that are deeper. Hey, I struggle with golf. I want to be able to hit it better because I'm sick of losing to my brother-in-law because I'm embarassed with this. There's always deeper things.

MARTIN: I want to show the bastard how much better I am than he is. Yes.

ERIC: Yeah.

MARTIN: It's a fine motivation, really, right?

ERIC: Exactly. And so I'm always digging for that mark. I'm like, OK, what is this person really looking for beyond what they're asking me for, right? And I get the why, yeah. I give them a little bit of what they ask for, but then try and mix in what they really need within the coaching. And it's been awesome. I've been coaching now for 15 years, and I love every second of it. I'm interested in coaching people outside of just golf, and since we started getting into the personal development. And I think those strategies work the same way. It starts with the why. It starts with the what are we doing here? Like, why are we here?

MARTIN: Once you develop a decent system, this different method of getting to the root cause, that's the beginning of it. It's interesting in medicine, the mainstream medicine doesn't do it. Mainstream medicine says, your symptom is, and I'm going to put something over top of it, to make it go away. And it's the make it go away method without asking, but why? And that's how I end up talking to people who have finally clued into the fact that putting a piece of tape over top of the warning light is just not good enough.

ERIC: Yeah. We struggle with the same thing. I'm glad you said that. I use the example all the time when I'm working with people of, let's say someone's overweight perhaps, right? And then want to get in better shape. In reality, they need the nutrition and the workout. They don't need the pill, in most cases. And for golfers, I get people that come in that want the pill.

MARTIN: Yeah. Everybody wants a pill. We have been seduced by the easy button marketing. All of marketing is trying to seduce people with, I am your answer. Just come to me and I'll push the button and everything will be fine. It's one of the worst lies of all, right? Life isn't like that. You will never, ever win by taking the shortcut.

ERIC: Bad for us, but easy to sell.

MARTIN: Yeah. So, how does that play out in your world?

ERIC: Yeah, usually someone will come in and then, a lot of times my conversations with these people is again, sort of talking about what they think they want and then me delivering what they actually need.

MARTIN: Yeah.

ERIC: So things are different now, Martin. I'm established enough with in my career, where I wouldn't, I think when people come in, they sort of know what they're getting and I can lead the ship.

MARTIN: Yeah.

ERIC: I'm sure you’ll experience this as well.

ERIC: Early on in my career, you sort of, to get enough clients, you have to,

MARTIN: Yeah, when you have results, you have a reputation and with that comes the certain, what should we call it? You can approach it with certainty, no, confidence would be a good word for it, right?

ERIC: How about authority?

MARTIN: Yeah, authority, good one, right? You can come in there and you say, sure, I have done this a thousand times. I have 80,000 students. Yeah. I have, yeah, I have coached people. Yep, right? So, those are your numbers, right?

ERIC: Yeah, we've coached a time. In 2017, 16-17, we started doing YouTube videos and shifting online. And so we do like a thousand online lessons a month now. We do so many swings. So, you start to stack up quick. But now I'll say, listen, guys, like this is kind of the proof is in the pudding here. These are the recommended templates. We do 20 to 30 practice reps, two to three times a week. This is the out. This is what we do. It's sort of a take it or leave it now.

MARTIN: Yeah. Now you have a method, right?

ERIC: I have a method. And I'm always trying to hook, I really try and get people quick wins in some category. And so if they start to see some progress early, then they're much more likely obviously to continue on. It matches the similarity for you of like, if I start to do something and feel better and notice a difference, I'm more likely to be hooked.

MARTIN: Yeah, we do have quick wins. I mean, it's easy for people who have terribly low energy to bring it back because there's usually a huge deficit that can be easily pushed, right? Something like that.

ERIC: Yeah, absolutely.

MARTIN: Of course, pain is a different problem, right? With pain, people say: "Oh, give me a pill, please." But that's not how it works. You need to actually heal the body.

ERIC: And the physical, literal pain or like the mental perceived pain, I deal with people who have perceived pain with their golf game, like emotional pain, embarrassed, frustrated, etc etc. So yeah, no, it's interesting.

MARTIN: Yeah, these are parallels in life, right? I truly appreciate the fact that you can use golf as a metaphor for life because when you pick any one thing, pursuit of happiness or not, happiness itself is find found in the pursuit of a worthy goal. So golfing? Well, sure, why not? You can pick the fact that you're going to get your handicap to X, right? That's a worthy thing, especially if you're in your retirement age and you say: "You know what? I'm going to hang on to my, whatever the number is, 80, until I'm 80, right?" Something like that, right?

ERIC: Oh, yeah. And that's one of the things that we would, I would make sure we do whether it's golf or for me in my life that works really good is painting a clear vision of where I want to be able to get to.

MARTIN: Yeah.

ERIC: That vision, that clarity of what that end goal or thing that I'm chasing is going to look like really pulls us along the way. And so same thing with the golfer, if I was just working with a human to get better, I'm sure it would be the same way with you of: "Hey, like imagine the difference in what you could feel like, what would your life be like with X, Y, Z?"

MARTIN: Exactly. Yeah.

ERIC: So, I spent a lot of time trying to paint a clear vision for people and given the tools to be able to get there. And that's whether it's fixing golf swing, "Hey, I'm going to cut my handicap in half." Or that's, "Hey, I want to double my business.” “I want to grow my YouTube audience," whatever their thing is.

MARTIN: But it's interesting that you just put there: set a goal, right? It needs to be realistic, attainable, and all of that. I'm not going to take a 350 pound person to half their weight in six weeks.

ERIC: Right. Yeah. And a lot of the people, so certain people come in too, where they say "Hey, I'm not sure what I want my goal to be," or, "I thought about what I want to do, but I can't really create a clear vision. I don't know what I want to do."

MARTIN: Yeah.

ERIC: And that's where I think you start to give them models, right? Like, modelling success. So, it's going to lose weight if they're 300 pounds, who else has gone through this and how much weight if they lost and what period of time? What are they going to do to get there? For me, if someone's trying to double their online business for a million or two, what's a reasonable time period? Who else has done this? What strategies did they use?

MARTIN: Yeah.

ERIC: I want to fix my golf game. So, I typically would follow those same things and for me, it's worked in my own daily life just to improve my life and myself it’s like, where do I want to go? What's the clarity there?" And then, how do I figure out how to get there? What are those first couple of steps? That's where I would just model people who have walked the path.

MARTIN: Yes. So, on your YouTube channel, do you make your living just on the channel itself? Or...

ERIC: Yeah.

MARTIN: And also sell memberships or individual sessions that are, what could a typical consumer get interfacing with you?

ERIC: Yeah. So, I coached in person one-on-one, for about a decade. I think that's important, too, to know with my story, many people, Martin say to me, "How do I build this? How do I make a million dollars a year online or build this online thing?" And I say, "Well, you've got to get really good at the thing you do first."

MARTIN: Yeah. I hear the young guys who say: “I want to be an X.” I remember this young boy in my car, he said, "I want to be a diplomat. I want to be an ambassador to a country." And I said, "Okay, good. Well, so what are you going to do about it? Are you going to take political science? Are you going to take a job in some senator's office? How are you going to go about it?" “Oh, no, no, no, no. I'm just going straight for the ambassadorship." Good luck, son.

ERIC: Yeah. Have fun.

MARTIN: Yeah.

ERIC: Yeah. I like that, Martin. John Maxwell tells the story when someone came up to him and said, "Hey, how do I get to be a really great speaker like you are?" I want to do what you do now and said, "Maybe so, but do you want to do what I did to be able to get where I am now to give all those speeches? So I spent about a decade trying to get great at golf coaching, learning golf, learning communication, learning how the body works, all that. And then we shifted to doing YouTube videos in 2016-17. And so we make, we do like 1.5 million a year in revenue. So, we make 20-30% of that via YouTube?

MARTIN: Okay. So, when you say “we” you must have a team around you now, yeah?

ERIC: Yeah. I have a business partner who I met. That story of how we got started, I think, is wow, there's so many things that lined up in the beginning. There's myself and my business partner, contracted people who work with us. But yeah, through YouTube we make videos and money through AdSense on the videos. Affiliate sponsorships. But our main thing is Martin, we do online coaching. So, someone signs up for a month. They have a membership, they have a fee. They send their swing videos in. We provide them feedback. There's other goodies that go along with it.

MARTIN: Okay.

ERIC: That'd be our main,

MARTIN: But this is amazing how the internet and the better bandwidth has changed our lives.

ERIC: Oh. So. My in-person coaching, I got stalled out. I would do one-on-one golf lessons. Maybe $80- $90,000 a year, which is kind of like where I,

MARTIN: Which is actually great. That's a respectable income.

ERIC: I was pumped. I was totally good with it. But there was a ceiling on it.

MARTIN: Yeah, of course. Well, there are only so many people who can pay you so much an hour, right? And you are only so many hours, right?

ERIC: Right. So the beautiful part of the internet is I can be everywhere all at once. I can be everywhere all at one time. So, yeah, that has been great. And I think that's the main thing we do. We just started this past year, a new YouTube channel, It's called “Lessons I've Learned with Eric Cogorno” And that's more personal development. That's more like how to live better, sort of stuff. So it's fun going,

MARTIN: But I think that will help you carry it throughout, rather than just golf, right?

ERIC: Yeah.

MARTIN: Because the message is universal.

ERIC: Exactly. Like you said, as is golf is with life. So, it's funny starting back from day one, you know, we're like, Not at the top of the hill of this golf thing, but like we've been doing pretty well with the golf thing. And now you're like starting from zero again with something new is fun.

MARTIN: Which is good. Yeah. Awesome. So, okay, so the regular folk who are wanting to improve their golf, it takes a good teacher. I cannot understate just how much progress you can make when somebody who actually has an eye for it can do for you. It doesn't, ah, I'll say it again. It's well worth the money, even though it may seem pricey at the first look.

ERIC: Absolutely. And yeah, golf for sure, and any coaching. I hired a business coach, our business got significantly better. I hired a health coach, fitness coach, my fitness and health got significantly better. So, I'm biased because I coach, but I'm all in with coaching.

MARTIN: Well, yeah. Same here, right? I mean, you hear me just say: “Hey, coaching works!” Because yes, people hire us to do their, well, help them with their, whatever we do for them.

We do Metabolic Typing which is an interesting little niche that actually teaches people how their biological individuality is expressed and which type of eating methods or styles will match their genetics. Back when long ago, it was easy where if you were born 500 years ago in, I don't know, Switzerland. It was for sure that you'll be eating aged cheese, rye bread, sauerkraut.

And on Sunday, they'll kill the chicken and in February, they'll butcher the pig. That's the Swiss diet.

ERIC: Yeah.

MARTIN: I'm narrowing it down, but that's that. But now you move to America and you have a Cherokee grandmother marrying a Norwegian grandfather. And there's some African mixed in and there's some other continents mixed in that way. That thing is no longer so straightforward.

We need to actually use this methodology to help people know what will work for them and what will not. And that's the thing that we do. We just give you a user's manual to your body.

ERIC: Very cool. Very, very cool.

MARTIN: Yeah. So, okay. So, repeat the name of that development website or channel, rather?

ERIC: Yeah. It's “Lessons I've learned with Eric Corgono.”

MARTIN: That's a long thing.

ERIC: Yeah. It's a working title in our first year with that. And I think what's interesting when we go when we're talking here, Martin too, is like for me, as my health and self-improved, all categories of my life improved, like our business growth, the freedom that we have, like everything else that I was shooting for business wise, has been one to one correlated with how much focus I put on making me better. And for me, there's been a couple categories that have been game changers. I think that a more broad and general, but like the sleep patterns, the hydration, the nutrition.

MARTIN: Yeah, all that.

ERIC: All of that for me has been my performance and my work has been so significantly improved as I've improved those categories.

MARTIN: Yeah. I just looked on my other screen at the channel. It's actually really good.

ERIC: Thank you.

MARTIN: You really are doing a fine job.

ERIC: Thank you.

ERIC: We're trying. We're a work in progress.

MARTIN: Great. What else would you like to tell an audience like Life Enthusiast that has people mainly concerned about their health and how to do better in life.

ERIC: Yeah, I think that part that I just echoed Martin would be a piece to start with, which is outside of the feeling better aspects of health, I think for me, the performance increase that I would get across the board from feeling better from those categories has been big. And I don't know that I anticipated that as much when I first started that journey, but I know that like everything I've done really was just been modeling success of other people. And so when I started to put a plan in place for me about seven years ago to improve myself and was highly influenced with people like Jim Rohn and Tony Robbins, to look around at what high performers do and you start to see people who take care of themselves.

MARTIN: Yeah. Interestingly, I also have taken Tony Robbins' courses back in the 90s.

ERIC: Oh, cool.

MARTIN: When I was your age back then.

ERIC: Yeah.

MARTIN: Yeah, interesting. My biggest improvement came from a book that came out about the time you were born by Stephen Covey, the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. And in it, what's really important there is to have a plan. Start with the end in mind is one of the habits, which is just define what it is you want. And then build back to where you are today and clear a path that can actually take you there. Make a plan. Which is what you described earlier in how you go about doing the coaching that you do. You help people understand where they're at, see them as they are, help them really understand that, no, no, this is, you're not like this. You're like, whatever it is that we see. And then build a plan.

ERIC: That's right. That's what I want to share as a key life lesson. If there's one thing that someone would do or a take home for me, that's totally changed my life, when I got introduced to Jim Rohn and I first started listening his videos, sometimes you hear a message but you're not in the position to like take it in for whatever reason. Maybe where you are in your life, whatever. Everything he said just like hit me right in the in the heart, he just said it so beautifully. And so I did a goal setting workshop, Martin, that he put out it's like, Jim Rohn goal setting workshops. It's like a three or four part time. And that was when everything shifted for me, when I allowed my brain for the first time in my mind to expand to think about what my dream life would look like. Which I had never done before. Maybe have goals or this other next thing, but it was always like based on my current reality my current set of skills, like this is what I do. Man, when I did Jim Rohn’s goal setting workshop and allowed myself to think beyond that, my whole life has changed so dramatically from that. Now I spend time every day setting the goals and setting a dream life in the future, and then obviously, you’re reverse engineering that. I spend time every day like 10-15 minutes visualizing what I want my life to look like and what it would feel like and smell like and see.

MARTIN: And there's your Tony Robbins, NLP, put yourself in the state. Connect to it.

ERIC: It just feels so good for me.

MARTIN: Yeah, yeah, it's important. Yeah, we are not taught well enough in our high schools about life. It's so sad that we're essentially dumbed down rather than taught to grow up or live up. Right?

ERIC: I can't imagine if I was in like middle school or high school, if I would have started doing this goal setting and doing this dream life vision and someone taught me how to meditate and do some mindfulness what would have been possible. Because everything on my sheet, Martin, I put these goals on stuff we cross them all off. I'm more nervous about like what am I not thinking of that I could be doing, that's like not what am I thinking.

MARTIN: Yeah

ERIC: And so I think if someone's listening and there's one thing that could completely change your life, it might work for you like it worked for me which is that Jim Rohn goal setting workshop, “Creating the dream life visual”

MARTIN: It’s a good one. I remember it was 1992, and I was asked to write a letter, explain to me what you really want in life. And I remember writing down. I want to help people get well by the thousands if not by the millions. And wouldn't you know it, 40 years, 30 years later here we are doing it. Not just doing it. Delivering it. Which is kind of interesting. So yeah, couldn't recommend it more. And if you don't know how, get a coach. Here's Eric, he has the team, he has the support, he has the channel, it's structured for you. I'll help you with your health. But call Eric he'll help you with the big picture.

ERIC: Absolutely yeah, would absolutely love to.

MARTIN: Yeah, awesome. Well, it's a total delight meeting you and seeing what's possible. I'm so glad that you got where you got as early in your life as you did. Because you now still have a fairly long runway to express yourself into the world. That's great

ERIC: Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate you having me on. Yeah, hopefully, I think to get some value out of this stuff that “Lessons I've Learned channel”, if someone wanted to check that out and watch, could be some some things in there. But yeah, if you have 15 or 20 minutes especially now like towards the end of the year and into then into next year to set that dream like vision now would be the time to to get going with that.

MARTIN: Yeah, this is the time most people try to recapture maybe, no, recount their last year and just see how they've done and score themselves on the success and depress themselves in the process because we undoubtedly miss some, but what's interesting is that stuff that you put down on paper and commit to has a way of working itself out somehow.

ERIC: Yeah, it is the craziest thing to me. And one more little note on there, Martin, that I'd like to add that helped me a ton is when you do the goals and the dream life vision for your future, the same thing of like if you're not feeling, when you want to feel better, what would that feel like? Me feeling great, waking up with energy and feeling that way, my brain feeling sharp? Literally put yourself in that spot. But one of the things that holds us back when we do the goals and the dream life is creating that next set of goals, this is my opinion, that next set of goals based on our current set of reality. So, right now, me at my age, I'm 36, I’ve got this, this this. I have a current set of skills and network of people that I think can create X. But if I'm looking at goals like three, five, ten years from now, I'm going to assume that I'm going to have more skills, better network, more resources. And so it really helped me a lot when I removed my current self, like don't make these goals based on where I am right now and what I'm capable of, but what that might be able to in the future.

MARTIN: Yes. Yeah, there's this fine line between blue sky thinking and connecting it to the current reality. And every goal needs to be believable. I can't tell myself that I'm going to bench press 600 pounds or 300 pounds. I can solidly manage 150, thank you. Right. And so that's my current reality. So I can set myself to 180, but I cannot make it stupid because my subconscious will say: “Oh yeah?” It’s just an unbelievably silly goal. Don't do it. You need to learn the method by which you get there. It's a step-wise goal setting process.

ERIC: Absolutely. Yeah, you can always chunk down a big goal.

MARTIN: Yep. Like that.

ERIC: You can't chunk up a small goal.

MARTIN: Right. Excellent. Very smart thought there. Yep.

ERIC: Yeah, I'm with you on that. All those bigger things I think about Martin, I'm like let's chunk that down. What do I need do today to move me one little step in towards that direction. Yep, im with you.

MARTIN: Yeah, well, listeners maybe your grandchildren should be talking to Eric. Maybe you can be talking to Eric, who knows? But there's definitely a possibility that you and your loved ones could have a better life when you take advantage of the resources available here.

ERIC: Awesome. Yeah. Thanks, Martin. I really appreciate you having me on. I enjoyed it.

MARTIN: Yeah. Lovely. Thank you, my pleasure. Eric Cogorno. C-o-g-o-r-n-o. Thank you. This is Martin Pytela for Life Enthusiast podcast, life-enthusiast.com. Thank you.